Nagarjuna's emptiness of emptiness

Good interview with Jan Westerhoff. Just a brief excerpt below concerning the title of this post. See the link for discussion of much more in Madhyamaka. This emptiness of emptiness criticizes, by the way, the Yogacara influenced Madhyamaka schools that assert that nirvana is fundamentally real, as is our direct access to it. A good discussion of this is here, particularly Thakchoe's work:

"Madhyamaka denies the existence of anything that is independent, self-sufficient, or intrinsically existent. While we only apply the non-self theory to persons we can still say 'OK, so perhaps persons are not fundamentally really and are merely conceptual constructs that are only real as mental labels, but there are still other things that are fundamentally real' (for Nāgārjuna’s predecessors these would have been both physical and mental things, but the details of this don’t matter right now). Madhyamaka takes all these other things away as well. If you want to phrase the point in the currently fashionable ‘grounding’ idiom, the idea is that no entity whatsoever has an ultimate ground (with the additional twist that the fact that no entity whatsoever has an ultimate ground also doesn’t have an ultimate ground!)."